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Ratios, Ratios....................Where Art Thou RATIOS!!!

OK, OK I am on a Shakespeare kick, but it goes to the heart of what I am writing about.  It is not unusual to hear the people in my office who have been involved in underwriting for years to say “that is not how it was in the old world”.  What they mean by that is how underwriting was done before “Automated Underwriting Systems” like Fannie Mae’s (DU) and Freddy Mac’s (LP).  These Automated Underwriting Systems have turned the way underwriting is done upside down.  I am not going to go over all the things that have brought this about but I will cover three of them.

 First, very few loans are manually underwritten any more.  Once a Loan Officer submits a loan through DU or LP and gets an Approved/Eligible or Accept, the loan is basically approved.  At that point all the Underwriter needs to do is verify the information on the application, make sure that every thing on the Automated Systems Feedback was followed, and that the house appraised.  If all this checks out the loan is done and a Loan Commitment is issued. Underwriters had a real hard time with this new concept, because they were used to certain documentation being provided, that the Automated Systems don't always ask for. Example, DU and LP some times does not require that an appraisal be done on purchase or refi’s, they waive it. These changes were not well received in their world.  A lot of Underwriters would still request the documentations, this created a little bit of turmoil between them and the Loan Officers, because now the Automated Underwriting Systems Feedback controlled a major part of the Loan.

The second major change is the “Ratios”.  This leads to the title of my blog.  Where are the ratios, they are through the roof.  Underwriters used to follow a hard set rule that ratios would be no more than 28/36. Today if a Borrower has good credit scores, I said good, not great, but good credit scores I can get a conventional loan approved with a 65% total debt ratio.  That is not just a little jump, it is a huge jump in the ratios.  Even government loans like FHA can get approved with 41/50 ratio.  This blew Underwriters minds, and it was very hard for them to accept this.

The third major change is the ability of a Loan Officer to give a Pre-Approval Letter with a very high degree of certainty that the Realtor has a qualified Borrower.  I do not give any Pre-Approval Letters without first taking a full application, once I do that I run the information through DU or LP, if I get a response with an Approved/Eligible or Accept, I have a qualified Borrower if he or she has told me the truth.

It looks like “Automated Underwriting” is here to stay, and a computer has a major say in whether a loan gets approved or not. There are other changes that “Automated Underwriting” has brought about in the Lending Industries, but these standout the most to me.  I hope it helps some of the Realtors on here understand the procedure today a little bit better, especially the ones that can remember the days of the 28/36 “Ratios”

 

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Info about the author:

George Souto is a Loan Officer who can assist you with all your FHA, CHFA, and Conventional mortgage needs in Connecticut. George resides in Middlesex County which includes Middletown, Middlefield, Durham, Cromwell, Portland, Higganum, Haddam, East Haddam, Chester, Deep River, and Essex. George can be contacted at (860) 573-1308 or gsouto@mccuemortgage.com

29 commentsGeorge Souto • October 21 2006 07:01PM

Comments

For someone like me growing up in the business with ratios, ratios, ratios it has been hard for me to accept that these high ratios OK'd by AU are for the good.  But I guess, so far so good.  MOst of the buyers that I speak with will still look and say"I don't want a payment that high" and will scale back.

Different world !

Posted by PHILIP TURNER-MORTGAGE BANKER SINCE 1980 (MCCUE MORTGAGE COMPANY) over 3 years ago
Same here Phil, most of the time.  What usually happens is they get all excited that they qualify for that much, and then I tell them the payment and see the looks on their face.  Usually they don't like the payment and focuse in on what they can afford.  But I make it their choice.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 3 years ago
I remember when realtors used to do their own qualifying back in the 70's and 80's.   28/36 was the golden rule.  Great blog!
Posted by Linda Davis (RE/MAX Realty Group) over 3 years ago

I got into it after that.  I get a kick out of the stories and experiences that Phil has share with me sometimes.

Now what AU says is the rule, with very few exception, CHFA being one of them. 

Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 3 years ago

George,

You should plan to come down to New London one of these days and have lunch with Phil and I.  That would be great fun!

Posted by Linda Davis (RE/MAX Realty Group) over 3 years ago

Yes it would, I would love that, but hopefully you will come to the luncheon that we are doing at the Convention Center also.

By the way what do you think the ods would be of Phil paying for the Lunch? 

Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 3 years ago
Hmmmm  Bill McCue & Phil bought me lunch a few weeks ago so I'd say it is my turn. 
Posted by Linda Davis (RE/MAX Realty Group) over 3 years ago
No, it would be on me. It would be worth it to listen the the two of you.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 3 years ago
George.... curious....not busting on you, but you make it sound so easy with good credit scores. What loans are you getting done with 65% ratios?  With my experience, there is more to it than this. Mega assets would be one of them. Really no payment shock. ...and so much more. Again... not saying that it can't be done, but I think more facts are needed to give reason to others why and how this can be done.... and not just on a good credit score. And define good....  650?
Posted by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages - USDA loans (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 3 years ago

Good questions Jeff, no offence taken.  On my regular conventional 30 year fixed with credit scores  650 or higher with a clean history no charge offs, collections or bankruptcies I have gotten an Approved/Eligible with 65% back ratio from DU with 5% down and maybe one to two months reserves.  My Treasury ARM 660 or higher same thing good history, no charge offs, collections, or bankruptcies, with 10% down, I have gotten Approved/Eligible with 65% back ratio from DU.  Hope you are ready for this one, no money down 100% financing, only $500 out of pocket towards closing costs, the rest can come from the seller, 650 or higher, again good history, no charge offs, collections, or bankruptcies 65% back ratio with very little in reserves. But if it does ask for reserves, 3 months max on a single family. Interest rates in the mid 7's  right now on the last one.

I get these feed backs all the time.  I think it is crazy for a borrower to do this, and I warn them, but if DU gives me an Approved/Eligible then it is Fannie Mae that is on the hook for it.

I usually will asked them if they like eating, and being able to drive their car, because there isn't going to be much left over for that.  But some don't want to hear it, they just want the house.  I warn them and give them as much info as possible, but in the end it is their decision.

Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 3 years ago

George... I know DU has changed... but most of my buyers are the clean 620 and above and have the income or money..... or they are subprime. I do have the middle people that I do as Alt-A deals..... but in regards to ratios... if my clients have high ratios, it's usually the 70% or higher... lol  I have gotten FHA ratios to 63% before.

 Anyhow...thanks

Posted by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages - USDA loans (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc) over 3 years ago

Jeff how in the world are you getting 63% on an FHA, I can't get higher that 50% on FHA, you must have a Genie in that computer...LOL

Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 3 years ago
Blanca, thank your for making this a featured post in your Group "Wat is New Loan in Products"
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago

WHAT ABOUT SEEMINGLY LOW DTI RATIOS...NOT APPROVED? 

I too have enjoyed the files with high ratios and relatively low assets.
But recently I've seen a swing in the other direction as well...

DU Level II for the following:
- 732 Fico
- 25% DTI
- 30 Months Reserves
- Rate/Term Refinance
- 30-Yr Fixed Program
- No Derogatory Credit
- 5 Years of Mortgage history
- Reducing payment $75/month

Only explanation was that current mortgage was only reporting 2 months.
Borrower puchased in 7/06 and was looking to do rate/term refinance.

I've had several files that fit this "short mortgage history reporting" profile.
Fortunately we were able to place them into other NON-DU programs.

Interested to know if others are experiencing this as well...

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by Brian Brass - Guaranteed Rate over 2 years ago
Brian, I have found that if I am over 70 LTV on a Refi, that DU is usually looking for 36 months Reserves no matter the FICO or DTI.  It does not make since some times but that is what I have been getting.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago

George hows it going ?

I do the same thing that you do, i dont give out preapproval letters. I have the prospective client give me all of their income documentation up front. I then have the staff underwriter look at it then i tell the client if they can obtain financing or if the purchase is within their affordability factor (DTI) .

Eddy

Posted by Eddy Martinez (Nationwide Funding Group) over 2 years ago
Eddy, you can't go wrong doing that.  I am in contact with my underwriter all the time, the way I look at it we are a team so I keep her involved in everything.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago

George,

Great informational post for those who may not know about or understand Automated Underwriting Systems  (AUS). I think that once underwriters got accustomed to AUS they really have come to like it. It takes a big monkey off their back particularily when it comes to one of those "Tweener Loans" and granting exceptions that are outside the box.

Me....I have come to love it as it is a major resource or tool to work the scenarios and what ifs to make a deal come together. It's great to be able to issue a pre-approval with an abundance of confidence. As a matter of fact, I had to back off from pre-judging a lot of loans. AUS have blown my mind on favorable findings many times.

P.S. I got one approved recently-100% financing, 64% back end ratio and no reserves.

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 2 years ago
Ron, I have to agree (AUS) has made life a lot easier, but at the same time allowed for some risky loans.  I find that if the credit is good, that I can get an Approved/Eligible on 100% financing as long as I keep the back ratio under 65%.  I try to inform the borrower about the dangers of that, but in the end it is their decision, I just make sure that they make that decision with all the facts.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago

George,

I agree and this is a part of what I preach as part if my Three Rules for my clients.

Posted by Ron Withers ----Retired Mortgage Professional over 2 years ago

George we have that advantage over others that our underwriters and staff are in house. This teamwork helps close loan faster!!!

Eddy

Posted by Eddy Martinez (Nationwide Funding Group) over 2 years ago
Eddy, you are right having the underwriter, & closer right there is a big help.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago
And you can't forget the loans out there that are truly "No Ratio" loans.  Up until just months ago with a 620 FICO score you could get 100% financing without even putting income down on the app...provided there was only 1 mortgage late in the last 2 years.  Now you need 10% down to purchase or refi "No Ratio" but that's a great product for those people who just don't have the income to qualify. 
Posted by John Smith over 2 years ago
Christopher you are right, a No Ratio Loan with only a 620 FICO and 10% down is a great deal any time you can get it.
Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago
Thank goodness the ratios have loosened!  With the new IO qualifying rules, we were sunk.
Posted by James R. Gill (Coastal Financial) over 2 years ago

James, with all the changes in the Industry lately they have began to tighten up a little again, but they are still a lot different than the days of manual underwriting.  Many more people can now purchase homes because of automated underwriting and the higher ratio's, but sometimes they allow people to get a little over their heads.

Thank you for stopping by and commenting. 

Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago
A 65% debt ratio is staggering! Whatever happened to the days of 33, 36, or 39% debt ratios? Wow!
Posted by Gary Woltal - Associate Broker REALTORĀ® Dallas Ft. Worth (Keller Williams Realty) over 2 years ago

I agree and also believe that automated underwriting will continue to have major role in residential mortgage lending decisions. That being said,  it can not replace is the knowledge and expertize of the loan officers and underwriters. We all know that it takes little bit more than to enter borrower's information in the system, collect documents and run it..All those little things like making sure that income is computed in a proper way (YTD vs wage; overtime, bonuses,self employed or not, tax returns and schedules, etc...), verifying assets as sourced & seasoned, looking for overdrafts, 401-K,s stocks,cash deposits,gifts, re-checking deferred liabilities and so many other small but important details that make human role irreplaceable.

We all know that AU finding and approval is as good as the validity of information and data entered there. In that sense, I think that continuing education for loan officers, processors and especially underwriters is of the crucial importance for the good loan for any borrower.

 

Posted by f over 2 years ago

Gary, that all changed, and I am not sure that it was completely for the better.

Senaid, you are right about the need to still know all those things.  We also need to know why sometimes you get an Approved/Eligible and sometimes you don't when the two loans are almost the same.  You need to know what to look for so that you can see if the Borrower is able to make the necessary adjustments.  AU is not going to tell you what to do, that knowledge only comes with training and knowledge.  The human factor as you said is still a major part of the Mortgage Industry. 

Posted by George Souto (McCue Mortgage) FHA, CHFA, VA Mortgages CT. over 2 years ago

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